TweetFollow Us on Twitter

Aug 94 Dialog Box
Volume Number:10
Issue Number:8
Column Tag:Dialog Box

Dialog Box

By Scott T Boyd, Editor

Failure of OO Revolution?

On 6/5/94, vollrath@vax.ox.ac.uk wrote [in STA-FORUM@qks.com]:

I have been interested in Dylan since I first heard about it, although I have had little solid information until recently. I hope it does well, and am reasonably confident that it will. I certainly agree with its goals. I saw that in a recent edition of Byte they said that the OO ‘revolution’ had failed, but sang the virtues of Visual Basic. It hasn’t failed, it just hasn’t really started yet! All that has happened is that people that wrote in C now right in a more complicated C. ‘Real’ dynamic-OOLs that provide a good and convincing alternative to this haven’t really been around. Now, STA is one, Eiffel is one, and I think Dylan will be one. ... portions deleted...

Most of you know that we have so enhanced and extended Smalltalk’s capabilities/design in our Smalltalk product (SmalltalkAgents (STA)) that it is really another generation of the Smalltalk language. Therefore, I will essentially punt on any Dylan commentary since I have been answering such questions (regarding QKS activity in this area) privately.

NOTES:

(1) Eiffel is not a (OODL) object oriented dynamic language and thus it suffers from some of the same problems as C++ (it is still better than C++ in many ways).

(2) Dylan is function-centric, not object-centric. In Dylan, objects are just structure, they do not have any inherent behavior. Modules (which contain methods/unlike classes in other languages) become the behavioral scope and the notions of OO such as inheritance are VERY different (i.e., sometimes they just don’t exist in the language proper :-). STA has combined both class and module style scope in our upcoming v1.2 release, thus libraries/projects can have both public (unscoped) and (scoped) private methods that shadow class/object methods for messages sent by methods in a library/project or one of its sublibraries.

(3) The STA-Forum now has a fair number of subscribers who do not own (or author in) SmalltalkAgents, but are on the forum to monitor technology trends.

(4) As most of you know, QKS’es Smalltalk (SmalltalkAgents) already has components and we are making them really sophisticated in our upcoming releases. We long ago committed to CIL/OpenDoc and will plug and play into other component systems through whatever host services are available (like SOM/DSOM).

I would like to make a few comments on the OO revolution failing: First, I think it is an absurd statement. Component technology can only be layered on top of an OO paradigm. What I mean by this is that components are like a 5GL given that I have a OO substrate to build them on (the 4GL piece). Components are just objects with a “well-known” messaging and data-interchange framework. For components to really become successful the industry has to tackle the much harder problems of extensible “framework” design, interaction, and validation.

I believe that componentization of system software and applications is just a natural evolution of object technology. Saying OO has failed, seems as absurd as saying that Ethernet/IP has failed now that we have Wide Area Networks and alternative transports (i.e., now that the mass media has discovered the internet).

Most “complete” OO languages provide a rich set of frameworks that already have a component based architecture. I think that it is really C++ with its non-dynamic architecture and complex semantics/grammar that is failing.

I have to wonder what the BYTE author’s real knowledge, experience, or awareness was to make such a public statement (in the corporate Smalltalk area alone, I wonder what they thought IBM/Digitalk PARTS were?). We all know that IBM has over 1.1 billion dollars of Smalltalk work on the books for 1994 (which they cannot find skilled people to fulfill).

The corporate marketplace is bailing on C++ and demanding Smalltalk, with real salaries for qualified corporate Smalltalk programmers typically ranging from $1000 to $2000 per day. We also know that IBM has committed to moving all their COBOL base onto Smalltalk - what does that tell you? OO really premiered with Smalltalk (not SIMULA as some folks would have you believe), and Smalltalk still epitomizes most if not all the OO principles (multiple inheritance excluded <== lack of it is an arguable ST weakness).

It seems irresponsible to tout Microsoft’s (market-saturation of) VisualBasic without carefully explaining the real issues of development today (which I think involve productivity (environments, visual-tools, self-authoring-agents), robustness, maintainability, scalable design, teams, and integration of independently authored bodies of code [frameworks, fragments, components, etc]). It is this kind of “promotion” that got us into the C++ mess in the first place...

The Windows/DOS world has been dominated so long by static C/C++ that when it got a taste of dynamic/interactive languages via VisualBasic it reacted like a starving person. It is really Microsoft who finally has begun to wake up to the problems of C++, you watch...

As has been mentioned by folks on this forum and elsewhere, the real change that is happening in software technology is that we are moving away from language issues and onto design (object/framework interaction) and productivity issues. In this evolving world, the capabilities of the development environments (integrated visual tools and packaging are crucial) and the frameworks they provide become the critical elements.

Building components in C++ is just as hard as building applications (talk to the folks who are trying to do it). The real problem at hand is managing complexity and capturing the design intent. The latter means that when I re-use or plug-in code (including components) from some outside source, how do I know how it will behave and how can I verify that it follows all my frameworks “rules”. All kinds of new issues arise, especially with regard to extensibility, negotion of services, access to attributes, etc. All these latter items are framework (message suite) issues.

In my opinion, software (environments) systems that automatically infer and retain design-intent as a natural and integrated part of the “authoring” process, and subsequently allow it to be formally managed in team development environments with minimal complexity are the new “holy-grail”.

Just my usual opinions ;-)

What do you other folks think?

- Dave Simmons

Quasar Knowledge Systems, Inc. [QKS], dsimmons@qks.com

You Didn’t Need Those New Features Anyway, Did You?

Great magazine and great article on Drag & Drop in your June 94 issue - but I have a problem. Like many developers, I am using a third party’s class library to implement my applications (in my case, TCL).

It’s all very well for Apple to bring out (excellent) extensions to the OS like Drag & Drop, but if you are tied to a class library (whose destiny you don’t control) it may as well not exist. I looked at retrofitting D&D into TCL 1.1.3 and decided that I would have to override 30odd classes to provide D&D. It isn’t worth the effort. Firstly, it’s an incredible amount of work, and secondly I would effectively end up with my own version of TCL - which I would then have had to convert to TCL 2.0 and beyond! I note that TCL 2.0 still doesn’t support Drag & Drop.

In the future, can Apple apply some pressue (god knows how) on vendors of developer tools to incorporate these extensions into their class libraries so that they can be released concurrently? If these new extensions are taken up earlier by developers, it’s good business for Apple.

I have an application which screams for D&D right now, but I’ll have to work around that until Symantec gets TCL to support D&D.

- Craig McFarlane

Delaney & Morgan Computing Pty. Ltd., Australia

 

Community Search:
MacTech Search:

Software Updates via MacUpdate

Capto 1.2.9 - $29.99
Capto (was Voila) is an easy-to-use app that takes capturing, recording, video and image editing to the next level. With an intelligent file manager and quick sharing options, Capto is perfect for... Read more
Opera 51.0.2830.40 - High-performance We...
Opera is a fast and secure browser trusted by millions of users. With the intuitive interface, Speed Dial and visual bookmarks for organizing favorite sites, news feature with fresh, relevant content... Read more
GarageSale 7.0.13 - Create outstanding e...
GarageSale is a slick, full-featured client application for the eBay online auction system. Create and manage your auctions with ease. With GarageSale, you can create, edit, track, and manage... Read more
1Password 6.8.7 - Powerful password mana...
1Password is a password manager that uniquely brings you both security and convenience. It is the only program that provides anti-phishing protection and goes beyond password management by adding Web... Read more
Evernote 7.0.1 - Create searchable notes...
Evernote allows you to easily capture information in any environment using whatever device or platform you find most convenient, and makes this information accessible and searchable at anytime, from... Read more
MacUpdate Desktop 6.2.0 - $20.00
MacUpdate Desktop brings seamless 1-click app installs and version updates to your Mac. With a free MacUpdate account and MacUpdate Desktop 6, Mac users can now install almost any Mac app on... Read more
HoudahSpot 4.3.5 - Advanced file-search...
HoudahSpot is a versatile desktop search tool. Use HoudahSpot to locate hard-to-find files and keep frequently used files within reach. HoudahSpot will immediately feel familiar. It works just the... Read more
EtreCheck 4.0.4 - For troubleshooting yo...
EtreCheck is an app that displays the important details of your system configuration and allow you to copy that information to the Clipboard. It is meant to be used with Apple Support Communities to... Read more
WhatsApp 0.2.8361 - Desktop client for W...
WhatsApp is the desktop client for WhatsApp Messenger, a cross-platform mobile messaging app which allows you to exchange messages without having to pay for SMS. WhatsApp Messenger is available for... Read more
iClock 4.2 - Customize your menubar cloc...
iClock is a menu-bar replacement for Apple's default clock but with 100x features. Have your Apple or Google calendar in the menubar. Have the day, date, and time in different fonts and colors in the... Read more

Latest Forum Discussions

See All

Alto's Odyssey Guide - How to Tackl...
Alto’s Odyssey is a completely stunning and serene runner, but it can also be a bit tricky. Check out these to try and keep your cool while playing this endless runner: Don’t focus too much on tasks [Read more] | Read more »
Here's everything you need to know...
Alto's Odyssey is a really, really good game. If you don't believe me, you should definitely check out our review by clicking this link right here. It takes the ideas from the original Alto's Adventure, then subtly builds on them, creating... | Read more »
Alto's Odyssey (Games)
Alto's Odyssey 1.0.1 Device: iOS Universal Category: Games Price: $4.99, Version: 1.0.1 (iTunes) Description: Just beyond the horizon sits a majestic desert, vast and unexplored. Join Alto and his friends and set off on an endless... | Read more »
Vainglory 5v5: Everything you need to kn...
Vainglory just got bigger. [Read more] | Read more »
Check out these 5 games that are a lot l...
So you're in love with Minecraft, but you're looking for something else to play as well? You've come to the right place then, because this list is all about games that are a bit like Minecraft. Some of them, more than others. [Read more] | Read more »
Our top 5 characters from casual RPG Cre...
Creature Quest definitely lives up to its name with a host of collectible creatures based on fantasy tales and world mythologies. To celebrate Creature Quest’s first birthday, we’re going to lay out what we think are the five best characters in the... | Read more »
Around the Empire: What have you missed...
Did you know that Steel Media has a whole swathe of other sites dedicated to all aspects of mobile gaming? Sure you'll get the very best iPhone news, reviews, and opinions right here at 148Apps, but we don't want you missing out on a single piece... | Read more »
All the best games on sale for iPhone an...
Oh hi there, and welcome to our round-up of the best games that are currently on sale for iPhone and iPad. You thought I didn't see you there, did you, skulking behind the bushes? Trust me though, the bushes aren't where the best deals are. The... | Read more »
The Battle of Polytopia Guide - How to H...
A new update just released for The Battle of Polytopia (formerly Super Tribes), which introduces online multiplayer. For all the fans of Midjiwan’s lite take on Civilization, this is certainly welcome news, but playing online isn’t as easy and... | Read more »
The best games that came out for iPhone...
Another week, another bunch of new releases on the App Store, another update to our big list of new games. It's not a classic lineup this week, but there are some really good ones in the mix all the same. [Read more] | Read more »

Price Scanner via MacPrices.net

Amazon restocks MacBook Pros with models avai...
Amazon has restocked 15″ and 13″ Apple MacBook Pros with models on sale for up to $251 off MSRP. Shipping is free. Note that stock of some Macs may come and go (and some sell out quickly), so check... Read more
Lowest price of the year: 15″ 2.8GHz Apple Ma...
Amazon has the 2017 Space Gray 15″ 2.8GHz MacBook Pro on sale today for $251 off MSRP. Shipping is free: – 15″ 2.8GHz Touch Bar MacBook Pro Space Gray (MPTR2LL/A): $2148, $251 off MSRP Their price is... Read more
Apple restocks full line of Certified Refurbi...
Apple has restocked a full line of Apple Certified Refurbished 2017 13″ MacBook Pros for $200-$300 off MSRP. A standard Apple one-year warranty is included with each MacBook, and shipping is free.... Read more
Lowest sale price available for 13″ 1.8GHz Ma...
Focus Camera has the 2017 13″ 1.8GHz/128GB Apple MacBook Air on sale today for $829 including free shipping. Their price is $170 off MSRP, and it’s the lowest price available for a current 13″... Read more
21-inch 2.3GHz iMac on sale for $999, $100 of...
B&H Photo has the 2017 21″ 2.3GHz iMac (MMQA2LL/A) in stock and on sale for $999 including free shipping plus NY & NJ tax only. Their price is $100 off MSRP. Read more
Apple refurbished Mac minis in stock again st...
Apple has restocked Certified Refurbished Mac minis starting at $419. Apple’s one-year warranty is included with each mini, and shipping is free: – 1.4GHz Mac mini: $419 $80 off MSRP – 2.6GHz Mac... Read more
Tuesday MacBook Deals: $250 off 15″ 2.9GHz Ma...
Adorama has the Silver 15″ 2.9GHz Apple MacBook Pro on sale today for $250 off MSRP. Shipping is free, and Adorama charges sales tax for residents in NY & NJ only: – 15″ 2.9GHz Silver MacBook Pro... Read more
Save up to $350 with these Apple Certified Re...
Apple has a full line of Certified Refurbished iMacs available for up to $350 off original MSRP. Apple’s one-year warranty is standard, and shipping is free. The following models are available: – 27... Read more
B&H offers $200 discount on Silver 15″ Ma...
B&H Photo has Silver 15″ Apple MacBook Pros on sale for $200 off MSRP. Shipping is free, and B&H charges sales tax for NY & NJ residents only: – 15″ 2.8GHz Touch Bar MacBook Pro Silver (... Read more
12″ Apple iPad Pro Sale of the Year! Models u...
B&H Photo has 12″ #iPad Pros on sale for up to $150 off MSRP. Shipping is free, and B&H charges sales tax in NY & NJ only: – 12″ 64GB WiFi iPad Pro: $719 $80 off MSRP – 12″ 256GB WiFi... Read more

Jobs Board

*Apple* Retail - Multiple Positions - Apple,...
Job Description:SalesSpecialist - Retail Customer Service and SalesTransform Apple Store visitors into loyal Apple customers. When customers enter the store, Read more
Sr. Experience Designer, Today at *Apple* -...
# Sr. Experience Designer, Today at Apple Job Number: 56495251 Santa Clara Valley, California, United States Posted: 18-Jan-2018 Weekly Hours: 40.00 **Job Summary** Read more
*Apple* Technical Specialist - Apple, Inc. (...
…customers purchase our products, you're the one who helps them get more out of their new Apple technology. Your day in the Apple Store is filled with a range of Read more
*Apple* Retail - Multiple Positions - Apple,...
Job Description: Sales Specialist - Retail Customer Service and Sales Transform Apple Store visitors into loyal Apple customers. When customers enter the store, Read more
Strategist, *Apple* Media Products, Content...
# Strategist, Apple Media Products, Content and Marketing Job Number: 113399632 Santa Clara Valley, California, United States Posted: 20-Feb-2018 Weekly Hours: 40.00 Read more
All contents are Copyright 1984-2011 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.